Color bit-depth question.

[steven s]

Hi, new guy here.

Is it possible to reduce the color bit-depth of the photoreal BMP scenery images from 24-bit down to 8-bit in order to save memory space? They should take up only about one-third the space once converted.

Steven S.

[steven s]

I went ahead and tried it and it didn't work, at least not with my graphics card. The scenery was just a jumbled frazzle. Or a frazzled jumble.

I'm planning to upgrade my computer after Christmas, so the new graphics card should be able to handle the photo scenery more smoothly.

Steve S.

[TreeHugger]

Hi,

what graphics card did you use? Did you convert to 8-bit indexed bitmap?

It does work for me using either ati9800 or x800xt with omega drivers.

Keep in mind, even if you convert the textures to 8-bit colourdepth, it is not of much use. They will be decoded upon loading into video ram and take up roughly as much space as before. Additionally, image quality may suffer depending on the generated palette.

Regards

[smcxx66]

it's one of the reason I use skybox formate for photo sceneries
19mb per scenery if you size it at 1024x1024.
2048x2048 is in 90mb

if i go with the reflex type formate it's in the 90mb becuase
there's more images use to project the scenery

Another way to get around that is, you don't have to extract
model or sceneries into FMS to use it.

you can use an SD card, dvd, cd or any memory save device.
A rewriteable dvd has 4.5 gig.lol

As long as the folders are not zip you can retrive them while
in FMS. Notice the down arrow in the model or landscape window ???
It say "look in ".lol To the right of that is the down arrow.
click on that and you'll see the file path tree.


Just drag all the files out of the zip folder into a new folder and
send them to where you want.

if you extract everything already...
just go into Program file/FMS/ make a copy of the sceneries or model
folder and send it to an external drive device. You might have to leave the
world scenery in there as a default.

or you can just drag the entire landscap or model folder out.lol
then just uninstall and reinstall fms again.

[steven s]

Thanks for the responses. And thanks for the tip about the SD card. I've got one from my digital camera I can use. Does it actually improve performance by using this method?

TH, it's an old ATI All in Wonder. Like I said, I'm planning to upgrade the entire computer, probably right after Christmas. The increase in video card RAM should help improve the frame rates.

Steve S.

[smcxx66]

No it dosn't improve frame rates.

I assume you tried everything as for settting XP to basic.
and not runing anything esle while runing FMS.
You can tried changing the ram setting or increasing it.
look in device manager or display setting. or do the help
and suport..and resovle it through that.
I didn't have any problems running fms with intel III and 3dx voodoo
it's old, old. orinally when i purchase the PC the settings wasn't set
properly, i was getting poor frame rates with dvd in gerneral.

You can also tried adjusting sample time in FMS
in the simulation tab in the window that pops up.

You can also try removing or disabling certain software or setting of software to not have it run on start up. Those anti virus programs you need it when surfing but you don't need it if your not on line.

good god my new PC came loaded with all kinds of software that
was running on start up on top of Vista.lol
it was running slower than my old intel III.

If you're in the market for a new PC and want to run FMS...
stay away from the Vista and nVidia combo...there flashing
screens issues and it's hit and miss.lol
or take your SD with you and install fms when the saleman is not looking
or ask him to install it to see if it works.
have a copy of d3drm.dll file. You need that to run FMS in Vista.

it's a good idea to try it even if the system is XP.
i can't get 8.5 to load in my Dell tower, it gives me an error.
you can't go photolistic unless it's the 8.5 version.

[lcsaba]

I have some remarks here.
I am working now on comparing various panorama photo types, because I have now a set of 64 pictures which form a 360*180 degree pano, stitched. I am using this to make any type of panorama picture in any size up to 143 MPixel (maximal width: 16926 pixels). I am comparing Equirectangular, Mercator, Rectilinear (for SkyBox), and Cylindrical pano types. I would like to see and understand if there are significant quality differences of the FMS sceneryes. Later I will report about this.
The mappings are: Spherical (made by TreeHugger (BadOldesloe type)) Mercator used by FMS_PL, Mercator used by FMSXYZ, and Skybox (mapping of this is trivial).
The less memory consuming is FMS_PL, which is followed by FMSXYZ, Spherical (BadOldesloe type), and SKYBOX.
It is not possible to compare 1024*1024 sized Rectilinerar pictures with 1024*1024 sized other types because the picture quality is 1:4 degraded.

You can compare 2048*2048 sized rectilinear pictures with those.
With other word, 1024*1024 rectilinear can be compared with 512*512 sized others to have same picture quality (in first approximation).

Now the reason of the order above is, that the FMS_PL sky is one pixel info and the ground can be one pixel if no text on it.
(I might explain later how can be used FMS_PL and FMSXYZ to have "perfect" pictures.)
FSXYZ has only one sky picture, spherical have four but half sized, and the bottom is hollow, which means that the mapping is taking into consideration that there is no "bottom" picture.
SKYBOX has got six but the sky and the bottom is a complete picture, even if there is a black circle on it.

Remark: so far I have made Rectilinear pictures from my stitched pano.
I will make some using converter programs, to see if the quality is degraded if transformation is needed because the original is not power of two sized as S0 reflex which is 32 pixels shorter.

I have to mention here, that my first FMS panorama landscape (which is made from other photos) can be downloaded from my FMS folder which can be found on a case sensitive server.
URL: http://www.sztaki.hu/~csaba.laszlo
Telki.ZIP

This is a "crash object" study, the pano is not perfect because the sky is handmade.
There are opaque crash objects and TRANSPARENT as well but the object is covered by a black box, it is hardly not possible to fly behind this.
I am using this FMS Landscape as a "RedBull racing" course, because it is possible to fly behind (and around) a row of pylons and before the building, on the left side.

Fog should be switched off, otherwise see info.txt

Remark: FMSXYZ displays most of the crash objects, those which are positioned with relative coordinates, therefore the position is defined by POSITION commands.

[smcxx66]

Thanks, Icsaba

I' been epxerimenting with the skybox projection.
I know it's realtively just creating a mesh or cad as yould you with
model and maping the texture on it.

anyway. I tried changing from 1024x1024 to 2048x2048.
On my screen there's not a noticiable different, but if I use
a bigger monitor to 19" or bigger..i imagine the more pixels
the better. I'm using a 15.4" wide screen.
The pano convertor i have can convert to whatever.

The only time it gose faster is loading time. it takes about
15 sec for me to load a 2048x2048 skybox verse..it just
gose when i'm in 1024x1024.

I was meesing with these. The original image are 600x600.
I blew up the images to 1024...of course they're going to get more blurr.
However i changes the way the skybox gets projected by rewriting
the .snc file. The side panels gets project at 2:1 ratio..twice as long as the hight. It is no longer a cube. Bacailly I've cutted the hieght of the cube
in half. while the top and bottom still retains a square.

This gives the scenery a perception of a wide field.
The fisheye effect dose not get effect by it.
But i'm able to get a decent focus from a 600x600 image
being map onto a 2048x1024.
I think the posistioning for the camera makes a big differents
Bascailly use the zoom in or zoom out button accordingly.


The first three shots are from a terrain generator.
The last 2 shots are from photolistic pano a 2048x2048..that I
shrink to 1024x1024....I'm still in the 18mb without objects.lol


I'm not too familar with the FMSXZY..yet..all i know is i loaded
the pano maker...but the no skys and ground just bugs the heck
out of me... i don't know for stupid reason it only has the cylinder
and not the sphere.


i've been trying to make my own pano..yeap mine comes
out about 12000 or great.

have you tried looking into hugins..it's a free pano stitcher.
30deg up, 30deg down..around 8 sets
the one shot of the sky and shot of the ground...yeah right.

anyway..i think a pod is most helpful becuase I can't hold
a camera still worth a darn.lol

[smcxx66]

thanks for leaving the prv. file as a pano Icsaba.

I converted it to a skybox as best i could at 2048 x 1024, which
gives me 512x512 at good focus.
8160x4080 or greater..please, please

I loaded the images at 1024x1024. use a regular cube .scn file
and a modified one at 2:1 ratio..notice how it gets stretch, but
the camera is sitting lower.

anyway..thanks for the scenery..Good JOB !!

[lcsaba]

If I am at home this evening I will read through your postings carefully, but now I can say the following:

The original pictures of the pano at the FMS folder have been lost.
Now I am working with a new one.

The new version is stitched from 64 pictures, same camera position.

I can upload to the same folder or to send you by e-mail any type of pano any size to play with it.
This new one is still not perfect; the main reasons of this are that the vertical axis of the tripod was not vertical, and the clouds were moving too fast. Therefore manual stitching is required. I realized some days ago when I made the SkyBox pictures from the stitched pano, that to produce the upper picture the globe should be rotated (computed way) 90º. If rotated, the upper sky can be stitched better. I will do this soon.
Therefore what I can send now is the present status of my new pano. It is good to play with.
I have already made the spherical FMS landscape and this is corrected but I am not recommending it for you because the size of it is reflex type, 8160 or 8164 pixels wide because 4 pixels required by mapping made by TreeHugger.

Remark: the horizon level of FMS pictures is important. The Telki pano which you have downloaded has been shifted and the .scn file height information and tilting are set (TreeHugger explained for me how to do this). The new version I am using is shifted down by 40 pixels but what I can send you is the original.
(I will explain later why is it impossible to push the horizon up or down as the theory is concerned and how can be done in practice.)

I am using GIMP 2 picture processing software. This is an OpenShare program you can download it. This program can extend the size of the pictures. I am using up to 800 times magnification. One pixel of the processed picture can be 8*8 (16*16) pixels on the screen. Therefore the screen size of you PC doesn’t matter while comparing picture qualities.

There is a challenge here which should be investigated. I am convinced that the reason of loosing quality (blurring) happens when a program must transform the size of the picture, even if the pixel number is almost the same. I am going to report about this on the FORUM, and this is the secret of FMS_PL, because of two pixels overlapping FMS_PL requires a 8176 pixels wide picture which is Mercator type.

Therefore I would recommend for you an equirectangular with a size of power of two, that is 8192*4096, and six pictures made from the original stitched pano. 2048*2048, up and down 45º.

The panorama pictures are JPEG files.

Have you tested the Telki landscape as it is with the crash objects?

One question appended later:

You have said that you can convert any types to any type. I know only my stitching SW which has got an utility to convert equirectangular to QVTR as I have said, and Bixorama which can convert 11 types but Cylindrical and Mercator are not included.
Have you got a third? Which one?

I will explain later why those pano types are important.
Don't forget that we started our thinking about panorama landscapes under a posting: FMSXYZ New Version V 1.1. 0